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I am a Java Developer from NYC that has been out of work for a long time. With my downtime, I have kept up with the current technology and learned alot about architecture in general. That was the easy part. Can I get any concrete hints from people how to get into the market? I know this is off subject, but...
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Thu, September 30, 2004 - 12:28 PM
I've been in your shoes and don't have a "magic bullet" to offer you. I think one thing that a lot of people overlook is the imprtance of keeping a positive mental attitude. When you go into an interview you don't want to give people the impression that you are some Schleprock who'll be raining gloom and doom every day in the office.
Other than that, check in with everybody you've ever met, go to anything that might even possibly offer a networking opportunity and keep a supply of business cards in your pocket at all times.
Good luck!! -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Fri, October 1, 2004 - 10:01 AMThanks for the useful information and the encouragement. I am just kind of glad that no sanctioned me for an off topic post. It is just that nowadays I have become very desperate. I need to get something and fast. I have tried joining NY user groups and SIG and have usually found a bunch of people with the same predicament (though I do have to admit that I learned alot after going to their meetings). The thing is that I haven't even gotten up to the interview part. I wonder if it is the way that I am marketing myself.
Well thanks anyway. -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Fri, October 1, 2004 - 2:47 PMI've found that Java in and of itself is a hard sell. If I were interviewing you, I'd be asking you questions like:
1) What frameworks have you used?
2) What open-source projects have you contributed to?
3) Have you done any O/R?
4) What app servers do you like best?
5) What non-java tech do you know?
Extending out and learning about what others have done outside of the traditional J2SE/J2EE spec IMHO is key.
From the non-technical end, though, there is even more you can do. Basically, *have a direction or plan* and exhibit *passion*.
1) I don't claim to have alot of hiring experience, but I have never liked receiving resumes with no cover letters or even worse, form letters. They waste everyones time and say to me that the applicant just doesn't care.
2) Another pet peeve of mine is interviewing people who were "just looking for a job". If you have this attitude, then EXPUNGE it from your head right now, otherwise it will broadcast itself loud and clear.
3) Have a *knock-your-socks-off* kind of answer for the question "why should we hire you". That answer should not be a pat "because I'm the best for the job", or other such BS. If you have not thought about what you could do to improve their process/business/whatever, then why are you applying? And if you have thought about it and can't come up with anything, then will you really be that useful to them? This is not you with your hat in your hand, this is you AND them co-operating to make things better.
4) Be client/service-focused rather than technology-focused. Make sure you can explain in an interview situation what you've done in easy-flowing, plain English without going into the nutsy-boltsy talk. Be prepared for tech-talk, just don't go in unless they really want to know.
5) When all else fails, "D.I.Y.". Don't sit at home surfing the net or even reading more about design patterns. Put things into practice and use the knowledge that you have to start something that will help YOU. You may not realize it, but the little bits of tech that we create on a day-to-day basis RUNS THE FRIKKIN WORLD.
Ok, I'm done spouting :)
Hope this helps -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Fri, October 1, 2004 - 3:08 PM
I never ask questions like you mentioned. If the answers aren't on the resume already, they should be. I might ask, "what is the strongest feature of XYZ App Server".
Let me add an unsolicited question that I always use:
"Tell me about a time you ran into a difficult technical problem and how you resolved it"?
There is no better predictor of future accomplishments than past behavior. This question will tell you how articulate your applicant, the level of work they have been assigned in the past, and how they approach problems. It is also nearly impossible to "fake it" convincingly.
For those of you hiring - asking questions like, "why are manhole covers round?" do nothing to tell you about the skills of the applicant and they tell the applicant how clueless your organization is. Never, ever, ever waste your time asking "brain-teaser" questions like those no matter how much the PHBs think it's a swell idea.
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Fri, October 1, 2004 - 5:29 PMI kind of like the "what's your favorite flavor of XYZ" question because it gives the person a chance to show what he knows about an entire class of products. -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Sat, October 2, 2004 - 11:04 AM
I can't think what the real-world application of that knowledge would be , though. You're not often going to find yourself in a position of needing to compare, for example, the features of different appservers. If the job you're interviewing for is at a company that is doing lots of migration from one platform to another, it may be helpful. To me, it just seems like a lot of trivia cluttering up my brain. -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Sat, October 2, 2004 - 2:57 PMI agree with Joe. When I've hired designers and coders, I've never cared about what they know -- just about what they can do. One reason for that is that most of what they know is going to be nearly obsolete in the foreseeable future: I've needed people who could keep up to date with wherever technological evolution takes us (and who can help nudge that evolution a bit in my favorite direction from time to time).
Given a choice between (a) a coder who can build and maintain my system no matter how or how frequently the requirements and platforms change, but who has to check the javadocs frequently even in mid-line, and (b) a coder who has memorized this year's javadocs and who can write correct code using them, but who may not be flexible enough to put energy into anything that diverges from this monolithic manifestation of mnemonic manhood-extension, I'll pick (a) every single time.
I need people who thrive on the edge of chaos. I don't need fossils, and I don't need gas bubbles.
It all boils down to Ashby's Law of Requisite Variety. -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Sun, October 3, 2004 - 5:21 PMBurton,
good luck. As someone who is trying to break into the Java arena, I think all of the responses to you were very good. In particular, the questions like what frameworks do you know, have you done Operations Research work, any open source contributions. These are things I am actively working on.
Another thing I am working on is creating a portfolio of code that I can explain. In my previous work as an AS/400 consultant, I have always been on the edge of chaos, working on stuff the in-house people did not have the time or talent to work on.
It is good to know recruiters look for these kind of people. I was beginning to wonder.
My problem is that now that I have a low-level manual job where I don't need to use my brain, and I have got my basic nut taken care of, why get back into a 40 hour rat race? I mean, from where I am at now, working for myself seems like the most promising option, because at the end of the day, when I am too old to work, I have only myself for whether I put away something for myself and my children and don't have to rely on the corporation.
Gilton
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Wed, October 6, 2004 - 10:06 AMThanks everyone for replying to my message and giving me good advice and encouragement. I think that it will be very helpful in my quest to become a developer (or at least a paid developer).
Smasharolla, I have a question. What exactly do you mean by "just looking for a job?" attitude. I mean that everyone that applies for a job is "looking for a job" except for those independantly wealthy individuals. For the rest of us we trade our time for money; just a condition of living in a capitalist society. Do you mean that applicants should exhibit passion about what they do? Just a question? -
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Re: Could you help a fellow Java Developer down on his luck?
Wed, October 6, 2004 - 1:12 PMHi Burton - I'm glad you found it useful
Make no mistake, I'm not talking about millionares here, just regular folks like you and I. But, if you've spent any time in an office, there are some people that obviously are not *invested* and not *engaged* in their work.
What I'm trying to convey is this: strive to get the most out of whatever path you choose to travel. You can get something positive out of most (some say every) situation, but *only* if you *work* for it.
Also, seek a situation (or role or job or company) that you are or can be very passionate about and get *fired up*! You walk into an interview (or even send an application) with that kind of enthusiasm and you WILL get a second look!
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